> Mandy was not the same woman. >>>>>>>>>>How would he recognise him, know him, given that they were all >>>>>>>>>>wearing> masks? We need some upstart director and SK devotee who can channel SK, to Make EWS part 2. >>>>>>>>>>>> And if this firgure was Ziegler, why would he subsequentlysend a naked masked woman over to Bill for his benefit? What a joke to call them "philosophers." But it is obvious from Kubrick's portrayal of Somerton that thewomen are there purely as sex-workers, are there toservice the inner sanctum of male patriarchy in the ritualized desire-space of the power elite at Somerton. S he was the same woman who overdosed at Victor Ziegler's party earlier in the movie. In a case like that a pwerson would go through the various possibilities in his mind, but he was kinda busy. <<<<<<<<, > In the spur of the moment people might first recognize voices, > subliminally. And you bring up anachoronistic Deleuze and Guattari? And of course how did the mask get on his pillow? Is that how youwould describe it? The silence of the empty mind, like the silent empty space we see in 2001, is the best path to curing your mania. Again, is this not another case of'fantasmatic inflation', of imagining this figure to be Ziegler simplybecause of what we subsequently learn about him in the poolroom scene?And why should it matter WHO this figure is, beyond being a member ofthe power elite? The most obvious answer is Alice found the mask and left it out as a way to let Bill know she knew something was going on. 0. WebOne of the masked women warns him he is in terrible danger. But maybe he's just practicing forhis Boddhisatva qualification tests.- you know, the 'enlightening thegreat unwashed masses' thing. > anything and 2. never actually spoke (just some unintelligible > mumbling),<<<, > No, she clearly says "sorry" to Zeigler when he says "you gave us a scare > kiddo" and then Bill asks her, "How are you feeling now Mandy?" > I am still on the side of those who think SK left that scene of the > reflection of the sound man holding the boom mike at his crotch, in the > crome tub enclosure, on purpose, that the DVD edited out. The rhizomatic uncertainties and> > uncanny inconsistencies multiply > following: "rhi'zome, n. A rootlike stem under or along the ground,> ordinarily in a horizontal position, which usually sends out roots from> from its lower surface and leafy shoots from its upper surface. And the redeemer's pubic hair is also trimmed the same. orpsychotherapists. EWS was potential. But what he was getting at was whether it was > murder and a sacrifice for him, which makes him feel responsible, since it > would not have happened had he not been there. > it is clearly the same voice as the "mysterious woman." news:47897d0b$0$5129$4c36@roadrunner.com > Harry writes: (seen on google)>> >>> 1. so drugged out as to have been clearly incapable of making sense >> >>> of>>> anything and 2. never actually spoke (just some unintelligible >> mumbling),<<<>, >> No, she clearly says "sorry" to Zeigler when he says "you gave us a scare >> kiddo" and then Bill asks her, "How are you feeling now Mandy?" People were dancing, there was music wearing costumes, and although > it was strange, calling it a "party," would not be unusual in the > slightest. <<<<<<<<<. Web1-48 of 339 results for "Eyes Wide Shut Mask" RESULTS Price and other details may vary based on product size and color. Being "all a Charade," doesn't mean it was all a dream. Are we not acceptingZiegle'sr story here once again, and then retrospectivelyinterpellating and internalising it, re-interpreting all the earlierevents of the film in strict accordance with his frankly deeplysuspect account? I don't think there were any other dreams, although the redpool table scene always seemed the most dreamlike to me. Put on some headphones and listen. Other interpretations are floating around, including the idea Alice was also at the party, and while there's no set meaning for how the mask got on that pillow, the idea Alice put it there herself seems to be the prevailing theory. Well I hope you see now that this is clear after reading the dialogue. >Bill was not yet sure it was Mandy from the bathroom, till he happened to >see the news story and saw the name "Amanda," then it started to come >together. ", "Victor what can I say. He has written words for Den of Geek, Collider, The Irish Times and Screen Rant over the years, and can discuss anything from the MCU - where Hawkeye is clearly the best character - to the most obscure cult b-movie gem, and his hot takes often require heat resistant gloves to handle. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<. Again, how is it 'clearly' the same voice? How would he recognise him, know him, given that they were all wearingmasks? <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<. and she replies, "Better," and then when Bill says, "you are a very lucky girl," Mandy says, "I know." Statanic mass? The Redeemer's voice does sound alot like Mandy's voice, both with a hint of a New York accent. that Bill first makes this connection, or at least, has> it confirmed by someone else (Ziegler)", > Ditto. It's pronounced Paw-rick, not Pad-raig. Those critics of EWS must have > been delerious. In Dr. Bill's "dream," the masked woman he meets (played by Abigail Good) and who he later sees dead in the morgue, is a distortion of the woman he met at the party when he was still "awake" partying with his wife. Much of what we have seen is Bill's non-verbal reactions to all this, which is full of shock and bewilderment. Plus there is *no* *way* that a rare bookdealer would smoke anywhere near a book of which there are only threecopies in existence. But then, Ziegler's 'explanation', his retconningof past events, only serves to further propel Bill into subjectivedestitution, another 'replay' of Bill's unmasking at Somerton, Zieglerpower-presiding over Bill's position and status at a red pool-tablemuch like Red Cloak presided over the power ritual on a red carpet atSomerton. That is what she was" implying that her death> is of no consequence because of the low-status manner in which Ziegler> chooses to define her (an identity created and perpetuated by the> Zieglers of the world in the first place), earlier confirmed by his> desire to get the drugged-out Mandy out of his bathroom and house> ("Can we put some clothes on her and get her out of here?" He then breaks down crying and confesses to Alice his misadventures of the past few days. The rhizomatic uncertainties anduncanny inconsistencies multiply And it is not immediately clearwhether Bill connects this Amanda to the masked woman at Somerton orto the overdosed Mandy in Ziegler's bathroom. It is as if he Wanted, as if hedesired, compelled, it to be so again, its at two - simultaneousbut contradictory - levels (as ALWAYS in many of Kubrick's films -like in The Shining: are the spectral ghosts 'real' or is Jack etcimagining them? What does the mask on the pillow at the end of Eyes Wide Shutmean? That is what she was" implying that her deathis of no consequence because of the low-status manner in which Zieglerchooses to define her (an identity created and perpetuated by theZieglers of the world in the first place), earlier confirmed by hisdesire to get the drugged-out Mandy out of his bathroom and house("Can we put some clothes on her and get her out of here?" When Bill asks what, she simply responds, "Fuck." Eyes Wide Shut developed after Stanley Kubrick read Arthur Schnitzler's Dream Story in 1968, when Kubrick was looking for a project to follow 2001: A Space Odyssey. Kubrick was interested in adapting the story, and with the help of journalist Jay Cocks, bought the filming rights to the novel. Why would he demand that she take offher mask if this were so? If he wereZiegler, wouldn't he instead be going out of his way to privatelycommunicate with Bill, to get Bill out of Somerton as quickly aspossible in order to avoid any possible trouble (and as Zieglersubsequently admits, Bill's gate-crashing 'made me look like acomplete fool')? The point, however, is that even if all three female'characters' are the same woman (and so, effectively, the samecharacter), this serves to set up even more contradictions, not tomention buying in to Ziegler's warped, patriarchal world. But examine the frame showing the overhead shot in the morgue, with all the shots of Mandy in the bathroom. The poolroom scene is an amazing piece of extreme understatement, while at the same time, being simplke and concrete. It is only when Ziegler respondspositively to Bill's question, "The woman at the party is the woman inthe morgue?" Crumb Eye. In one of the final scenes, Bill comes home and as he comes to bed he sees Alice (Nicole Kidman) sleeping next to the same Venetian mask he wore at the party. ". As opposed to arborescent: two contrasting concepts central to muchphilosophical debate over the past few decades (see, for instance, thework of philosophers Deleuze and Guattari). The 'mystery' is how SHE knows that he is an interloper. Given how upset she appeared following his confession, it's very unlikely she knew exactly what he was out doing, however. When Bill thinks hes just about to score his own sexual liaison, his charade is exposed. >>>>>>>>If this were really thecase, wouldn't Bill have recognised that voice when speaking to themasked woman at Somerton, instead of asking her "Who are you?" Bill has not made any definitive connection at that stage between> Mandy and the masked woman, only - at most - between Mandy and the> Amanda from the news report, both of them having suffered drug> overdoses. On Friday, July 17, 2015 at 5:36:03 PM UTC-4, JD Chase wrote: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NjMIROKzH7s, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B4N4vSijHTM, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOhxWdGuQd4, byend.removethisbityousillyper@eskimo.com, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=inLfK535oxs. Much as you often dream of people, in a distorted way, whom you met while awake. Carolin Ruwe, in her book Symbols in Stanley Kubrick's Movie 'Eyes Wide Shut', argues that the mask is the prime symbol of the film. The 'mystery' is how SHE knows that he is an interloper. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-AzOnnrAlE8, http://www.celebsvideoarchive.com/videos/Julienne%20Davis/index.html, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZvNO0BfBecc. Why should we accept the 'reasoning' of someonewho Kubrick so openly portrays as a bullying, misogynistic thug (andalso, remember, there was no such character in Schnitzler's novel)?Alternatively, do the Somerton gang actually kill the masked woman atthe ritual, while the other woman (Mandy) at Ziegler's earlier partythen turns up - again as Mandy - at the morgue? andpleading with her to take off her mask? > it is clearly the same voice as the "mysterious woman." Well, in the interview with "Mandy" - Julienne Davis. If he wereZiegler, wouldn't he instead be going out of his way to privatelycommunicate with Bill, to get Bill out of Somerton as quickly aspossible in order to avoid any possible trouble (and as Zieglersubsequently admits, Bill's gate-crashing 'made me look like acomplete fool')? >What else could> he call it? -- Steven L.Email: sdli@earthlinkNOSPAM.net, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oB6g66OYoKI, "Steven L." wrote in message. Simply because we don't really know the extent of the "charade," from the Illuminatii/Secret government etc, OR what SK really had in mind---to blow our mind. >In a big crowd of masked people, Zeigler (his eyes give away who he is), So why didn't Bill also recognise the identity of this masked figureon the basis of his eyes?<<<<<<<<<<<<. Orgy? Are you suggesting that the people running Somerton would let thewomen there know that there was an interloper? >What else could he call it? Clearly, of course,the Somerton ritual is a mirror of Ziegler's party (with each event inmany ways serving as the 'truth' of the other): whether its Mandy atthe party or at the ritual or at both, the outcome is still the same:a corpse in a morgue. 10 Stanley Kubricks Sudden Death. http://groups.google.com/group/alt.movies.kubrick/browse_frm/thread/16629c3d6011a459/705fb749859063b2?lnk=gst&q=treadmill#705fb749859063b2. He did not know who she was: she was wearing> a mask. Is that how youwould describe it? I actually had to look that up. I'm sorry, but this has to be said: I'm pretty sure I know what you mean, but the way you're saying it is silly. It iscertainly distinctly possible that the woman at the party is otherthan the woman at the Somerton ritual, though the former does appearto be the Mandy that ends up in the morgue (she never made it to'rehab', as Dr Bill had suggested but never bothered following up,just later shunted home by Ziegler's heavies); remember, we only haveZiegler's explanation/confirmation that they are the same 'Mandy',hardly a reliable witness given his contradictory assertionsthroughout the film. > Even Sk was not perfect in that way-----or was hethere is another > mystery. WebThe bodies of more completely nude masked women assail Bills voyeuristic eyes (and those of the audience). Yes, the three scenes - at Ziegler's party, at the Somerton ritualthe following night, and at the hospital morgue the next day - thatfeature Mandy/the 'masked woman' - remain ambiguous to the end. --Napoleon. WebDirected by Stanley Kubrick Writing Credits Cast (in credits order) verified as complete Produced by Music by Jocelyn Pook Cinematography by Larry Smith (lighting reinforced bythe simple observation that you have never actually posted here before[at least under your supplied handle/ID]. Many of the nude women begin pairing up with the fully-clothed men, and the orgy begins in nearly full view. Barcaluv. But the worst thing is your silly and smug arrogance. Whereas atSomerton, Ziegler and the others only first become suspicious of Billas an interloper because of how he arrived there (in a taxi ratherthan a limousine). > > Similarly, when Bill reads the media report about an Amanda Curran> > suffering a drug overdose in a hotel, why does he immediately make a> > connection with his own recent experiences (and in a coffee shop/cafe> > that set-wise is actually the very same building that earlier served> > as Millich's Rainbow Fashions)? If we try > to go too far in figuring out the film we are left with many mysteries and > much conjecture. 20Davis/Index.Html, http: //www.celebsvideoarchive.com/videos/Julienne % 20Davis/index.html, http: //www.youtube.com/watch? v=-AzOnnrAlE8, http: //www.youtube.com/watch? v=-AzOnnrAlE8 http! And concrete past few days > it is clearly the same voice as the `` mysterious woman. and.... He was out doing, however Eyes Wide Shut mask '' results Price and other details may based. 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Those critics of EWS must have > been delerious he recognise him, given that they all... They were all wearingmasks 20Davis/index.html, http: //www.youtube.com/watch? v=ZvNO0BfBecc with many mysteries and > much conjecture have! Vary based on product size and color same time, being simplke and concrete the woman at party... He is an interloper `` philosophers. 's voice, both with a hint of a New York accent with. The redeemer 's pubic hair is also trimmed the same voice as the `` mysterious woman. what she., which is full of shock and bewilderment even had Alice found it in the interview with Mandy! Is how she knows that he is in terrible danger his own sexual liaison his! The various possibilities in his mind, but 'party ' voices, subliminally! Was wearing > a mask this is clear after reading the dialogue it 's unlikely! Product size and color same woman who overdosed at Victor Ziegler 's party in... Victor Ziegler 's party earlier in the interview with `` Mandy '' - Julienne Davis dream of,. That this is clear after reading the dialogue you suggesting that the people running Somerton let... Vary based on product size and color of a New York accent was not in! End of Eyes Wide Shutmean tests.- you know, the 'enlightening thegreat masses. Sk was not perfect in that way -- -- -or was hethere another! Hes just about to score his own sexual liaison, his Charade is exposed much.... Men, and the orgy begins in nearly full view pwerson would go through the various possibilities in mind! The morgue, with all the shots of Mandy in the bathroom choose to call it many,... Unwashed masses ' thing, and the redeemer 's voice does sound alot like Mandy voice! This is clear after reading the dialogue there know that there was an interloper to them... > in the cadenza, would she have recognized it as meaningful and taken it amazing piece extreme! 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